Nearly three and a half years ago, I sat across from Michael Cohen in a bustling coffee shop in the Hamptons, and over dry toast and egg whites, he told me, unequivocally and unprovoked, that he would take a bullet for Donald Trump. He felt like a member of the Trump family, or, at least that’s what he wanted to convey to a reporter taking down his every word. So much has changed since then, least of all that I’d now kill to feel safe in a busy greasy spoon. Cohen took a figurative bullet for his former boss in pleading guilty to federal crimes that included a hush money payment made to Stormy Daniels in the run-up to the 2016 presidential election. He spent many hours testifying in front of Congress, participating in state and federal investigations involving the Trump Organization and campaign, and more than a year in federal prison, before he was released to home confinement earlier this year.
Through it all, Cohen gave the press singular insight into his former boss. He understood Trump’s brain, his actions, his family, his business from its guts, and was able to both explain where we were at any given moment and predict what would happen next. On last week’s episode of Inside the Hive, he did just that: gave a detailed assessment of the president’s most recent behaviors and a road map for what he believes is to come. Below is an edited transcript of our conversation.
Vanity Fair: I’ve relied on you so much in my reporting on Donald Trump and his family. Professionally, you lived inside his brain for so many years. That’s what led you to be a prognosticator. In February 2019, you said that Trump would not transition peacefully at the end of his term. I think we can all agree that you were right. What made you think that would be the case?
Michael Cohen: I know Donald Trump. I know him intimately in terms of his brain. I can tell you, it’s a very scary place to live, because I have become anesthetized to the narcissism that exists only within the two ears of Donald Trump. It is filled with 100% pure narcissism. I watched how he was behaving over the course of the two years since he took office. Although he was still solid within his base, he never actually grew his base as a president. Had he just done an infrastructure bill, he would have doubled his base and won this election easily. But instead, the very first thing he wanted to put forth was a Muslim ban. While I voiced my objection to it in the White House, his response was, well, Don’t worry; we’ll try to get it right the next time. So I saw that he wasn’t growing the base, and knowing Donald Trump the way that I do, knowing that he was going to lose the reelection, I knew that Donald Trump would never peacefully turn over the White House, that there would never be a peaceful transition of power, and it’s one of the things that I had said to the late, great, honorable Elijah Cummings, that the only reason that I’m here, standing before you all, is because I do not believe that under a Donald Trump presidency there will be a peaceful transition of power, and that scared me.
What made you believe that?
Well I was just watching his actions. The same way I knew that he was going to win in 2016. I remember sitting with Chris Cuomo on CNN, and I said to him, Keep laughing, keep making the statements that you want. In another four months you’re going to be calling him president. I made a prediction. The same way I predicted he was going lose this [election]. Actually, I made a $10,000 bet that he would lose, and I just received the money so now I’m going to donate it all to charity. $15,000.
Do you think he believes there has been fraud in this election and that’s why he lost, or is that just public posturing?
I need you to think of what Trump is doing as no different than if you were watching The Apprentice. This is all a reality show. He knows he lost the election. He knows it. But the problem is he has an incredibly fragile ego and his fragile ego will not allow him to acknowledge that he is a loser, that he lost the election to Joe Biden. “I’m Donald Fucking Trump. I can’t lose the election to Joe Biden.” This is a cash grab. When you finish a job, you’re always thinking about how to reinvent yourself. That’s what Donald Trump is doing right now. He knows that his next saga of his story is really going to be predicated around a Trump news network. It’s why he’s fighting with Fox every day. He’s looking to steal their base. Because with his social media platform of 90 million followers, he knows that of that 90 million, 20 million are die-hard Trump fans. He could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and they would be behind him 100%. From them, he just wants $4.99 a month. And for that $4.99 a month, you get to listen to all the bullshit and all the far-right-wing conspiracies that Donald Trump can dream up. That’s what he’s going to sell you. That’s $100 million a month. $1.2 billion a year. That’s going to pay for the gas in his 757.
That doesn’t work if you’re a loser; you can’t sell being a loser for $4.99 a month.
There are 20 million Americans who are so entrenched in the cult of Donald Trump, as I once was. He has a spell over these people. Why? I don’t know.… It’s going to be an infomercial. It’s going to be one fucking infomercial after another. He will do it, and there are 20 million stupid people out there who are willing to part with their money, in the middle of a pandemic, to give it to him. To me, I’m blown away at the lack of intellect in some of these people. I’m not talking about people who are uneducated. I’m talking about people who are educated too.
It just goes to show you how much hurt there must be in this country, that people are willing to buy into it. You fell for the bill of goods too. Why did you fall for it?
How did someone like myself fall into it? My falling into it goes back to 1987, when I was a junior in college. I received as a gift The Art of the Deal. I was intrigued by it because I saw many similarities in myself. His was just on a much bigger scale. When I was in college, I was importing gray market cars. I was bringing in Mercedes and Porsches. I always tried to think big. Then, of course, moving back to New York, I started practicing law. I did well in the field, and then I had the opportunity to go into the transportation field and I built a large company that I sold and then I was basically retired. And then Trump asked me to work for him…. I had invested in a Trump property in the year 2000 so I saw the power of the brand. A lot of people say things, which are very negative, that I knew I was working for a bad guy. Well, yes. But in 2007, how many people would have rejected the offer to work for Donald Trump? The Apprentice was the number one show on television. There was the Miss Universe pageant. There were buildings going up all over the place. I’m a deal junkie when it comes to real estate. I owned my own real estate throughout the city. To be a deal junkie for the biggest deal junkie, he’s hypnotic. For me, I understand that celebrity appeal. If you’ve ever been around a celebrity, and walking down the street with them, the hundreds of people with cameras. Flashes going everywhere. Even if they’re not taking pictures of you, the proximity, to be in that VIP room, was intoxicating for me. I clearly was missing something in my life. It had nothing to do with financial [need]. It was emotional. What he’s doing is he’s appealing to the far-right base. Especially if they’re racist. They like Trump’s rhetoric because Trump likes the status quo of white power.